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Thread: SNR DB level question

  1. #1

    Default SNR DB level question

    Well to make a long story short, I can not afford a service call at this time.

    My dog chewed through my cable one night so I went to the installer and got a new cable. After plugging in the new cable and powering back up, I could not connect to the satellite at all.

    Syncing
    Ranging
    Network entry
    software download
    syncing

    That was the modem status for hours. Called support and they were no help at all. So I eventually opened up a ticket not knowing about the service charge. Since I work online I could not wait over the weekend and thought that maybe when the dog got a hold of the cable, he moved the satellite somehow.(cable is above ground until the cabin is built so I can swing it over there to bury.)

    So I took all the equipment up the hill with a power cord and made minute rotational adjustments until I could connect. The installer calls me today and says that the SNR is way off. I can not afford to have him come out (I am over 50 miles away) and all I have to monitor is the modem status by browsing to the ip address of the modem.

    My question is what should the Rx SNR be set at? I have noticed if it is above say 5.9 it will not connect.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnphoneman View Post
    So I took all the equipment up the hill with a power cord and made minute rotational adjustments until I could connect. The installer calls me today and says that the SNR is way off. I can not afford to have him come out (I am over 50 miles away) and all I have to monitor is the modem status by browsing to the ip address of the modem.

    My question is what should the Rx SNR be set at? I have noticed if it is above say 5.9 it will not connect.
    Number one, what youíre doing is contrary to FCC federal regulations. Youíre pointing a radio transmitter antenna into an area where there are numerous satellites, some of them military, and if you aim at the wrong one you could interfere with it in various ways. I donít know if this is an actual federal crime but itís certainly a violation of federal rules and regulations. Only a certified installer is permitted to aim a transmitting dish.

    Number two, I think the goal SNR varies by the type of service and which modem you have. Do you have legacy, Exede5 or Exede12? Do you know the modem model or if not what color is it and what color are the lights?

    Generally speaking, and Iím certainly not a technical expert, most systems wonít work with an SNR below 6. Generally, the higher the number the better. The SNR is the Signal to Noise Ratio, a measure of noise on the line. An SNR of 6 means 25% noise. An SNR of 13 means 5% noise. Right now on Exede12 with a SurfBeam 2 modem (black with blue lights) the my Rx SNR is 9.9 and my system is working fine. This is not a constant number. It varies a little minute by minute and varies widely during bad weather.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    FCC federal regulations.
    Their main concern is to Human Exposure to Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields.

    Back around OCTOBER 30, 2002, DIRECWAY stated:

    These conditions have been applied to the DIRECWAY earth stations so as to protect children and adults from possible harm due to radiation from radio frequency transmissions.

    So, its clear that any two-way satellite dish needs to be elevated, and its emissions must not "blanket" humans.

    I've never found a statement via FCC that explicitly states a technician is required when installed equipment will not transmit when off its receiving satellite.

    FCC has rule(s) for those like Captain Midnight, or in other words, those who can transmit at will.
    Last edited by Phainein; 07-31-2012 at 05:28 PM.
    WB-1: 163 Riverside, CA Gateway: Denver AcceleNet Server

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    Do you have legacy, Exede5 or Exede12?
    When he stated, "all I have to monitor is the modem status by browsing to the ip address of the modem."

    this can only be done via SB2 modem, so user most likely has Exede 5, living in Montana...if all is correctly stated.
    WB-1: 163 Riverside, CA Gateway: Denver AcceleNet Server

  5. #5
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    Footnote - Interesting sidebar: Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule

    Preemption of Restrictions on Placement of Direct Broadcast Satellite, Broadband Radio Service, and Television Broadcast Antennas.
    WB-1: 163 Riverside, CA Gateway: Denver AcceleNet Server

  6. #6

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    Saying that adjusting a dish is restricted is stupid. How do all these people in RV's and truck drivers set up every time they move? Not all of them have tracking devices. You must be an installer to say that. It does not take a rocket scientist to tweak a dish signal if you have the numbers you need.

    @phainein Thanks for that link

    Can a local restriction require professional installation of receive-only antennas?
    It is recommended that antennas that both receive and transmit signals be installed by professional installers to maximize effectiveness and minimize the possibility that the antenna will be placed in a location that is likely to expose subscribers, their families, or others in the area to radiation from the transmit signal at close proximity and for an extended period of time. In general, associations, landlords, local governments and other restricting entities may not require professional installation for receive-only antennas, such as one-way DBS satellite dishes. However, local governments, associations, and property owners may require professional installation for transmitting antennas based on the safety exception to the rule. Such safety requirements must be: (1) clearly defined; (2) based on a legitimate safety objective (such as bona fide concerns about RF radiation) which is articulated in the restriction or readily available to antenna users; (3) applied in a non-discriminatory manner; and (4) no more burdensome than necessary to achieve the articulated objectives.
    That clears up the question as to whether I can adjust my own dish.

    Yes it is an SB2 modem. Oh and clear blue skies. Not even any of those wispy clouds. Did some more testing this morning and if I drop it below 7 the dish works fine but once I take it over 8 it drops before I can walk the 100' back to the house.

  7. #7
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    ViaSat has a portable dish/tria for remote locations called the "Flyaway" that comes in a case that the customer assembles, points, and peaks on site.

    If it was illegal for a customer to point their own dish transceiver than ViaSat couldn’t sell these units.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tnphoneman View Post
    Saying that adjusting a dish is restricted is stupid. How do all these people in RV's and truck drivers set up every time they move? Not all of them have tracking devices. You must be an installer to say that. It does not take a rocket scientist to tweak a dish signal if you have the numbers you need.
    I'm not an installer. I'm a retired 83-year-old attorney. Those people in RVs and truck drivers do not have transmitting dishes, they have receive-only dishes. Anyone can legally point a receive-only dish. I had a Dish network system on my RV once upon a time and for many, many years I pointed my big dish all over the sky.

    When two-way satellite Internet first started an installer had to have an FCC license for radio transmitter work but that was later reduced to certification which today is extremely lax often consisting of little more than a week or so on the job training.

    That link and the other links phainein posted were not appropriate references to FCC regulations on transmitting systems. The one you quoted referred to receive-only systems; Exede, unlike Dish Network and DirecTV, is NOT a receive-only system.

    An Exede dish cannot be aimed very accurately going by numbers alone. You have to use the push-pull tone system built into the Tria and modem. The SNR alone is not sufficient to find the best aim. A signal strength meter alone is not sufficient. Sure you can get a working system aiming by hand but only by blind luck would it have an optimal signal.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlugNickel View Post
    ViaSat has a portable dish/tria for remote locations called the "Flyaway" that comes in a case that the customer assembles, points, and peaks on site.

    If it was illegal for a customer to point their own dish transceiver than ViaSat couldnít sell these units.
    The Flyaway is primarily a military field communication system that is now largely obsolete. Some are still being used by emergency providers -- police and firefighters. Flyaway is a secured two-way data communication system. It uses a ViaSat LinkWay modem, not a SurfBeam. It uses a self-acquiring automatic positioning antenna in most instances and is not pointed by the ďcustomer.Ē It was not designed for use with Exede or by residential customers. It requires the same certification as any transmitting equipment which is often minimal but the law is still on the books.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwain View Post
    I'm not an installer.
    What ViaSat/DISH/DirecTV/NRTC/etc ought to offer is this:

    1. Two Year Warranty on Dish Alignment....if the wind blows it, we fix it, until we get it right.

    Otherwise,

    2. Provide a video on Youtube for DIY to tune an installed dish.

    As their Service Manual says, "Important: A poorly pointed antenna consumes the network space equivalent to three customers."
    WB-1: 163 Riverside, CA Gateway: Denver AcceleNet Server

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